"When the coffins of the hostages begin to arrive ... the overthrow of the government will start from ... the street."
Maj. Gen (res.) Gil Regev has no regrets about his recent remarks that caused a stir. On the contrary, in an interview this week, he went even further.
Gil Regev is one of those names that many Israelis know. He was a pilot in the 201st Squadron, the first squadron of American-made Phantom fighter jets in the IDF during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. The squadron suffered horrific losses in the opening days of the war, with numerous planes downed and pilots lost.
The story of the legendary 201st Squadron is the subject of a fascinating series on Kan12 TV (available online, in Hebrew) called האחת — THE ONE.
The documentary series, by Amnon Rabi and Shelley, directed by Gilad Tocatly , was filmed two and a half years ago, before the judicial coup, during the Bennett, Gantz and Lapid governments. It was broadcast after the elections, when the Netanyahu government was already in power, three weeks before the October 7 massacre and after eight months of stormy demonstrations against the judicial coup.
Even beyond his “Top Gun” notoriety for his skill and heroism, Regev has since achieved a degree of notoriety for his closing soliloquy in that documentary series and even more recently, for his reflections on where Israel is, and on where his grandson will live here. We’re sharing portions of his interview, which garnered a lot of attention in Israel this week, as a window into what some high profile Israelis, whose devotion to the state is beyond question, are saying about the unprecedented circumstances in which we find ourselves.
We follow with that interview just below.
FIRST, AN “EDITORIAL” NOTE: What we’re seeking to do in ISRAEL FROM THE INSIDE is to give a taste of the discourse in which Israelis are engaged — in the press, on social media, in culture, in Israeli literature and music — as a window onto the soul of Israelis, their society and their country. These are tough times in Israel, and the discourse here reflects that. Some of the articles and columns we translate and post are painful to read. We post them because they are what Israelis are writing, reading and talking about.
We know that not all of this is easy to take in. But that is “the real” Israel. For those who (quite legitimately) prefer to read exclusively the “feel good” stuff, that’s available aplenty online.
WEDNESDAY (05/22): Our guest on our weekly Wednesday podcast is an IDF veteran (Maj. res.) and served as Chief of Staff for Israel’s Minister of Public Security. He recently wrote about what Benjamin Netanyahu needs to say to the Israeli people, and if anything, recent events make his argument even more pressing. We’ll hear what he thinks the PM needs to say, and why. We will post an excerpt for everyone, and the full podcast with a transcript for paid subscribers.
THURSDAY (05/23): Ron Arad, the Air Force navigator shot down in October 1986 and never recovered, is back in the news for reasons we’ll explain. So, too, are the soldiers lost in the famous Sultan Yakub battle, for similar reasons. We’ll explain how all that is related to this war and this moment and what it says about what Israelis are feeling and thinking. We will also post one of the Op Eds from last weekend that lays out a doomsday scenario for Israel if Prime Minister Netanyahu should so much as utter the words “Palestinian State.”
FRIDAY (05/24): We’re not covering almost anything at all about the American campus protests, because we focus on what’s happening Inside Israel. But a column this week by a leading Israeli public intellectual, explaining why he thinks the American academy may be unfixable, sheds light on how Israelis are feeling about the American campuses as they watch from afar. We’ll share portions of that column.
As we mentioned above, the closing final monologue of the documentary series, THE ONE, caused quite a stir. People tended to treat Regev's words as if they had been said now, during Netanyahu’s administration.
Regev followed up with Yediot Ahronot with another interview, portions of which follow here:
I asked him [said the interviewer] what reactions he received after the screening of the series on Kan 11. “People reacted strongly to the final monologue of the series,” he said.
What do you mean by strongly? “People said they cried with me. I think the general feeling of losing our way and longing for something else was shared by all the respondents, from all ends of the spectrum.”
…
How do you explain what happened to us? How did we get to this? “This government has led us with eyes wide open to the greatest disaster in the history of the country. After all, the characters that make up this coalition are so grotesque and ridiculous that sometimes I'm not sure they're real. Once, a character like Tali Gottlieb would have provoked bursts of laughter to the point of tears. Today she is part of a rogues gallery that decides the fate of the country. You look, see and hear Dudi Amsalem and do not believe that he is not a character from Hanoch Levin's play [DG - Levin was an Israeli dramatist, playwright and director, known for his avant guard satiric works] or 'The Wizard of Oz.' Then you accidentally switch to Channel 14 [DG - Israel’s rough equivalent of Fox News] and you see the colors, the intonation, the content, the language and the depth, and you're not sure where you ended up.
“Sometimes I think it's just a bad dream that will pass, that I'll wake up immediately and everything will pass. But that’s not happening. It's only getting worse. A bunch of deranged people are running the country and the sky is not falling.
… …
You didn't explain how this eclipse of the luminaries happened to us [“And God said, ‘Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens…” (Genesis 1:14) and Rashi who said when the luminaries are eclipsed “is an unfavorable omen for the world”]. “Look, in the investigation of serious accidents or major disasters, it is customary to talk about the Swiss cheese model. This means that in order for a serious accident to occur or a major disaster to occur—a combination of conditions and circumstances is necessary. It will always be a combination of factors.
“Let's assume that despite the false assumption by the political echelon that Hamas had been deterred—the military echelon would have functioned independently and increased vigilance and alertness. After all, in such a situation the disaster would have been avoided. Or let's assume that even though the military echelon did not increase its forces in the area and did not prevent soldiers from going on leave, the standby units in the surrounding towns were alert and ready for the task. Even in this case the disaster would have been much reduced.
But on October 7, the incorrect political assumption that Hamas had been deterred and was not interested in war infected the heads of the security establishment like a corona virus. That is why the army moved its forces to the territories [DG - West Bank/Judea and Samria, which was heating up at the time], and in the surrounding sector it operated in Shabbat and holiday mode. The people of these towns naively assumed that Netanyahu was 'Mr. Security,' and that the fence was an impassable border, and the IDF wwas the Israel Defense Forces. But there was one Sinwar who prepared, recognized, and took advantage of an opportunity.”
Where in your Swiss cheese Sinwar's miscalculations come in? “You will be surprised. This is where he was wrong. He assumed that [DG - anti judicial reform[ protests and refusals to serve were a sign of laxness, or weakness. The man does not understand democracies. He saw the Arab Spring before his eyes.”
Say, in light of the bravery of the soldiers in the war, aren't you sorry that you said you wouldn't want your grandson, Rio, to be a combat solider? “I can't regret anything that didn't happen. Rio is six years old. It will be another 12 years until it's time to enlist. If this government and its leader don't disappear from the world, Rio won't be a combat soldier simply because he won't stay here.”
… …
“The worst thing of all is that the Israeli economy, which in recent years was based on a handful of talented people, entrepreneurs, inventors, liberals, who added capital to the state coffers and carried on their backs a huge parasitic and unproductive public—they have also become disillusioned. You will meet most of them at Kaplan on Saturday night. If there is no fundamental change here, especially after October 7, these talented people will not stay here and without them our end is guaranteed. Without them, there is no country. We must replace the failed government that brought us the greatest disaster in the history of the country, and the sooner the better.
… …
What do you think is the most urgent thing to do now? “Agreement on an immediate withdrawal from Gaza in exchange for a full hostage deal. An incomplete deal, or leaving the hostages in the status of those whose place of burial or whereabouts are unknown—will be a dreadful disgrace forever.”
I asked him what he thought the Chief of Staff, Herzi Halevi, should do.
Unfortunately, the chief of staff will have to resign at the end of the current campaign. It must be ensured that his resignation—like the resignation of other senior officials in the defense establishment—will only take place after the resignation of the government and its leader, to prevent the possibility that the current government will choose the next heads of the defense establishment.
“The obstacle to a hostage deal thus far has been the prime minister. Just like Sinwar, who understands that a hostage deal without evacuating the Strip means a death sentence for him and the rest of his forces, so, too, Netanyahu understands that withdrawal from Gaza and the return of the hostages is the end of his rule. This union of interests between the two decision-makers doomed the fate of the hostages. We received proof of this just this week from a “senior political official”, who said that action in Rafah is inevitable with or without a deal. So I ask you, do you need more than that to torpedo a deal?”
… …
But the prime minister himself warned that if we do not destroy the Hamas battalions in Rafah, the events of October 7 will repeat themselves. “There is no greater manipulation and lie than this sentence. On October 7, it happened that the IDF fell asleep on duty and fell into a deep holiday nap. None of this has any bearing on the dangers lurking for us at the hands of Hamas—provided we act correctly, we do not fall asleep on duty again, we eliminate the existing asymmetry and maintain a demilitarized area within a kilometer of the fence.”
What does that mean? “This means that any place from which fire of any kind was fired into our territory, immediately receives accurate counter-fire, without any consideration of the environment from which the fire was fired. This is true for Gaza, it is true for the northern border. A village from which fire was fired in the direction of our territory—its fate is sealed.”
A village from which fire was fired in the direction of our territory
—its fate is sealed
Excuse me, even if it is a populated area? “Yes. Wherever fire was fired from—it must be returned with accurate fire. A hint of this ability and intention that we sent towards the Iranians after the night of the unmanned aerial vehicles. We were wrong when we spoke to our enemies in hints. That language should be reserved reserved for the Americans. They can send an aircraft carrier to the area, and the hint was clear. Israel is not in this position. Israel must defend itself and its residents in a simple and clear language that is understood in the Middle East. I know it sounds cruel. But it is much more effective and less cruel than what happened to the residents of Gaza in the current round.”
… …
[The government leaders] claim they are waiting for the end of the war. “The war ended two months ago. Now this government needs to be freed from the shackles of the defeat on October 7 and from its tireless need to regain its honor and take revenge. Every day that passes in this coalition causes terrible damage to the country, some of it irreversible.
"When the coffins of the hostages begin to arrive ...
the overthrow of the government will start from ... the street."
Look, in this government there are ministers who are unfit to fulfill their duties. People without managerial experience in key positions in the public service. Look at Ben-Gvir, a serial thug who turned the police into his own private militia, which practices extreme violence against civilians. This man violates the law in the country without being accountable to anyone, and recently also offered to kill terrorists after they were captured by the IDF.
… …
“And I ask myself,” he says, “what else needs to happen for this hollow house of cards to collapse? When will the people of Israel finally realize that these are false prophets, who feed us spins, lies, propaganda and talking points. When will we sober up and tell them enough, go already!
“The existential danger lurking before us is not our enemies from the outside; the existential danger is from within. If, as a result of the war, there is no internal change within us - it will have no meaning. And without meaning, what is the point of living here? It is unfortunate for them that people seek meaning in the death of their loved ones, they are called heroes They tell their stories and remember them, but that's not enough.”
… …
We are almost at the end of the interview. Let's talk about what we avoid talking about in this period. The occupation. “You know my position.”
Still, I want to hear. “Look, the Six Day War was a military victory that led to a national disaster. There the seeds of calamity of original sin were buried. The occupation. We must say goodbye to the Palestinians. Their story and our story cannot exist side by side on the same piece of land. We have a state. Instead of protecting its legal boundaries we are looting other lands and abandoning our own land.
“The idea of separation is the nightmare of the extreme right, but there will be no escaping it. The question is not if, but when. I'm not talking about peace. I'm talking about arrangements that will allow for coexistence. And don't let demagoguery influence you. The fence was breached in Gaza because the guards fell asleep. The rocket fire from Gaza is taking place because we agreed to asymmetric rules that must be annulled immediately. There must be a separation fence and a demilitarized area between us and them. One day we will go to the market in Qalqilya or Damascus. Meanwhile, they need to be there and we need to be here.
… …
So, I’m not clear. After all that, are you an optimist or a pessimist? “In general, I believe it's never too late to change. I'm always surprised by what grows after the last rain. And the garden is confusing right now. I've already seen that the olive grove is blooming vigorously and the first fruits are popping up. Maybe we'll have oil this year.”
Let's be honest. There is no such thing as "objective news or views." We all look through the prism of our own preconceptions and prejudices. Gen. Gil Regev is a man of the left; his views are pure leftist. Why should they be presented as what most Israelis are thinking? Daniel Gordis says, "This is the real Israel." But that's only in his left-leaning eyes. I have lived in Israel for 39 years. The people I know--religious Zionists--have very, very different views, although the media doesn't want to portray them. The majority of the country is NOT in favor of withdrawing from Gaza in exchange for the bodies of murdered hostages.
As an Israeli citizen IMO division in govt and society during this existential war is extremely dangerous. “ a house divided against itself cannot stand.” There will be a day of accountability for all the failings of those in govt, shabak, IDF, Mossad, 8200 etc- but IMO this is not that time. The general’s remarks are not helpful but inflammatory. Unity amazing all Israelis is essential if we are to survive as a people and a nation. Mr.Gordis: I hope you direct your great platform towards an essential unity.