Watch now | In one of their edgiest clips yet, Eretz Acheret touched a lot of raw nerves ... some intended and some likely not. We explain. Plus many other hints that massive change could be in the offing.
There are many ways to do national service, and not just in combat. With all the civic needs in Israel it is disgraceful to avoid any service to the nation "Sherut L'Om" . The Haredi political parties are not doing their constituents favors by insisting on non-service as permanent for all who study. Outrage by retuning soldiers and their families from this conflict may change the political reality to a more equitable civic society.
EVERYONE should be drafted but of course not everyone needs to be a combat soldier. There are plenty of support services required, from clerks to cooks to technicians to logistics. There is also much need for community work - soldier/ teachers and so on. This would benefit Arab communities as well as Jewish ones. And WHY can't a Haradi man do morning or evening *seder* and ALSO work several hours a day in an army capacity? Many Haradi men balance work and Torah study like this. You don't have to be a genius to figure this stuff out. You just have to believe that EVERYONE should bear some of the burden and responsibility ( and privilege) of living in Eretz Yisrael.
Some will misunderstand the military situation. Not everyone in the military is at "the tip of the spear." If haredim will "backfill" the nonconfrontational roles that are in support of the actual fighters, then more non-haredim can shift to the fighting edge.
In addition, the haredim will have a better chance of appreciating what the fighters, the real heroes, must sacrifice, if the haredim are, at the very least, part of the team, directly involved in the IDF/IAF. This experience will replace their fear of getting killed in action with better respect for those willing to risk their lives for our nation and, yes, our civilized world.
Haredim watch Eretz Nehederet? Wow! I would have thought it was considered tref! As Jews have a knack for doing, they make us laugh through dark times. I have paid it forward and passed these videos on. They are so much better than SNL and thank you for introducing them to me and others.
If - God forbid - the IDF fails to prevent an invasion of masses of psychotic Islamic death cultists, will the Haredim pick up a gun to fight? Or just die studying?
Points; 1-haredim should have been drafted all along since 1948.
2- draft age required by God in Torah is age 20, not 18 like the gentiles do as not yet mature enough in brain development and more mishaps at 18.
3-at this late date with a hi tech smaller army and population much larger, drafting Haredi is stupid, as they were volunteering more and more each year anyway until Lapid destroyed it all
4- if not drafting Arabs don't draft Haredi
5-Torah for info says Haredi should go first to war as God wants a holy army, how about that ?
6- Haredi should serve but with points above, it should have been left alone and would slowly fix over time. Must live with in reality and not a perfect dream world
The Hareidim will most probably "NEVER GO SERVE THE ARMY"!!! as it was declared already in 2013. Those few that you are talking about that do go, are to my best knowledge not the regular "Yeshiva Buchar" type of thing, but simple dropouts.
If you review the Talmud and commentaries of the Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish (the leaders in creating the Charedim) on the people freed from service in the army (newlywed, etc.,) they make it clear that if you need them because you don't have enough people and are at risk of losing they also go and no one is freed. We only free people if the alternative is everyone dies. The conversation to date has been clear: we don't need the people, but it needs to be more equitable.
The second issue is the message to the Charedim: we believe that your way of life is nonsense, and we can enlighten your kids once they get into the army.
You'll need to shift the conversation with Charedim to We are going to lose if you don't join, and we don't have any designs on your kids. I don't know if either is true.
Regarding your second issue I do not think that you are that stupid not to get that it's vice versa. And it's even more because we have hard facts backing our lifestyle something that yours doesn't really have.
Eh so you want charedim to send their kids so they can be exposed to your facts? If you actually want to change your current dysfunctional conversation you need to convince charedim that their kids will return religious.
Then they should 1) not take government funding to support their yeshivot and means of living, and 2) they should all leave the country they do not support. The hypocrisy is outrageous.
I'm an American Jew, so I'm ofc an outsider, but it would seem that your argument is irrelevant. If they live in the state of Israel and benefit from it in any way (which from what I hear they REALLY do) they should also serve their country, irregardless of how they "feel". That is what makes a citizen.
I support s movemen by all high school seniors throughout Israel of, " hell no, I won't go.....until they go!" Boycott the military until Chareifi are drafted.
This is a red herring divert us from tragedy of being stuck in a war we cant win due in large part to IDF blundering. Adding another 10,000 haredi soldiers to the mix wont save the day Let's be real. The IDF doesn't really want the haredim. Drafting them would cost too much in Bituach Leumi payments If the IDF was serious it would to purge itself of female solders (a wonderful idea as the IDF is rife with sexual abuse) and eliminate its WOKE protocols.
We are in Israel because of the Torah. The Torah forbids women from becoming soldiers. Not politically correct, I know but in G-d's country we violate G-ds rules at our own peril.
Please tell me exactly where it says in the Torah that women are forbidden to be soldiers! You *might* think that Army service can be considered not "modest", but again, as I commented earlier, there are lots of ways EVERYONE can do Army setvice without being a combat soldier. It is entirely possible to work in an office only with other women, for example. Another is community service . I would think that shoving responsibility for the very existance of Israel onto only one sector of the population- non-observant men- absolutely violates "G-d's rules".
From what I understand according to Halacha a woman may not place herself under someone else's jurisdiction (other than that of her father and after marriage her husband) which is by definition the personal status of a soldier. Weapons are also considered male "garments"
From what I know of Halacha, the jurisdiction you refer to is connected to her age vs a vs marriage and property rights. Haradi women today work in all sorts of fields and many of them have supervisors; so much for your jurusdiction argument. As for weapons, not all soldiers carry weapons!
Sorry - I do not think that Israel today can afford to throw the job of defending itself on one sector of the population. I think it's WRONG. I am really trying to explain this calmly, but frankly it makes my blood boil when on the one hand religious Jews claim total exemption from service and on the other those who do serve get more and more days of service. It's so unfair, and it sparks HATE between Jews, which also undermines our existence.
As a woman who served in her other country's military before making aliyah, I'd appreciate it if you stop speaking for the rest of us. Many of us are happy to volunteer, proud to serve, and brave enough to do a good job of it, too.
As for sexual harassment in the military, sexual harassment is everywhere people can get away with it, and it's not always men harassing women, but sometimes vice versa, too. It is a totally separate issue to be properly addressed.
There are many ways to do national service, and not just in combat. With all the civic needs in Israel it is disgraceful to avoid any service to the nation "Sherut L'Om" . The Haredi political parties are not doing their constituents favors by insisting on non-service as permanent for all who study. Outrage by retuning soldiers and their families from this conflict may change the political reality to a more equitable civic society.
EVERYONE should be drafted but of course not everyone needs to be a combat soldier. There are plenty of support services required, from clerks to cooks to technicians to logistics. There is also much need for community work - soldier/ teachers and so on. This would benefit Arab communities as well as Jewish ones. And WHY can't a Haradi man do morning or evening *seder* and ALSO work several hours a day in an army capacity? Many Haradi men balance work and Torah study like this. You don't have to be a genius to figure this stuff out. You just have to believe that EVERYONE should bear some of the burden and responsibility ( and privilege) of living in Eretz Yisrael.
Some will misunderstand the military situation. Not everyone in the military is at "the tip of the spear." If haredim will "backfill" the nonconfrontational roles that are in support of the actual fighters, then more non-haredim can shift to the fighting edge.
In addition, the haredim will have a better chance of appreciating what the fighters, the real heroes, must sacrifice, if the haredim are, at the very least, part of the team, directly involved in the IDF/IAF. This experience will replace their fear of getting killed in action with better respect for those willing to risk their lives for our nation and, yes, our civilized world.
Haredim watch Eretz Nehederet? Wow! I would have thought it was considered tref! As Jews have a knack for doing, they make us laugh through dark times. I have paid it forward and passed these videos on. They are so much better than SNL and thank you for introducing them to me and others.
If - God forbid - the IDF fails to prevent an invasion of masses of psychotic Islamic death cultists, will the Haredim pick up a gun to fight? Or just die studying?
Go back and read Bialik's City of Slaughter for the previous Heradi reaction to defilement of their own wives..
Zussel ben Shlomo
Points; 1-haredim should have been drafted all along since 1948.
2- draft age required by God in Torah is age 20, not 18 like the gentiles do as not yet mature enough in brain development and more mishaps at 18.
3-at this late date with a hi tech smaller army and population much larger, drafting Haredi is stupid, as they were volunteering more and more each year anyway until Lapid destroyed it all
4- if not drafting Arabs don't draft Haredi
5-Torah for info says Haredi should go first to war as God wants a holy army, how about that ?
6- Haredi should serve but with points above, it should have been left alone and would slowly fix over time. Must live with in reality and not a perfect dream world
The Hareidim will most probably "NEVER GO SERVE THE ARMY"!!! as it was declared already in 2013. Those few that you are talking about that do go, are to my best knowledge not the regular "Yeshiva Buchar" type of thing, but simple dropouts.
What happened to the Plesner Law, passed by the Knesset, requiring Haredim to serve in the army?
If you review the Talmud and commentaries of the Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish (the leaders in creating the Charedim) on the people freed from service in the army (newlywed, etc.,) they make it clear that if you need them because you don't have enough people and are at risk of losing they also go and no one is freed. We only free people if the alternative is everyone dies. The conversation to date has been clear: we don't need the people, but it needs to be more equitable.
The second issue is the message to the Charedim: we believe that your way of life is nonsense, and we can enlighten your kids once they get into the army.
You'll need to shift the conversation with Charedim to We are going to lose if you don't join, and we don't have any designs on your kids. I don't know if either is true.
Regarding your second issue I do not think that you are that stupid not to get that it's vice versa. And it's even more because we have hard facts backing our lifestyle something that yours doesn't really have.
Eh so you want charedim to send their kids so they can be exposed to your facts? If you actually want to change your current dysfunctional conversation you need to convince charedim that their kids will return religious.
From the Hareidi pov. They never wanted this country to be created, and the whole being of this so called "Jewish state" goes against their religion.
Then they should 1) not take government funding to support their yeshivot and means of living, and 2) they should all leave the country they do not support. The hypocrisy is outrageous.
I'm an American Jew, so I'm ofc an outsider, but it would seem that your argument is irrelevant. If they live in the state of Israel and benefit from it in any way (which from what I hear they REALLY do) they should also serve their country, irregardless of how they "feel". That is what makes a citizen.
It's not total exemption. It's a deferment for anyone (haredi and non haredi, even Buddhist) who decide to opt for full time Torah study.
Great piece! Todah. Now, how about covering: How is Israel supposed to rein in the settler movement without sparking a civil war?
I support s movemen by all high school seniors throughout Israel of, " hell no, I won't go.....until they go!" Boycott the military until Chareifi are drafted.
This is a red herring divert us from tragedy of being stuck in a war we cant win due in large part to IDF blundering. Adding another 10,000 haredi soldiers to the mix wont save the day Let's be real. The IDF doesn't really want the haredim. Drafting them would cost too much in Bituach Leumi payments If the IDF was serious it would to purge itself of female solders (a wonderful idea as the IDF is rife with sexual abuse) and eliminate its WOKE protocols.
You are living in the past.
Women want to serve as well as men, and there are many many positions their performance is equal to or better than male soldiers.
We are in Israel because of the Torah. The Torah forbids women from becoming soldiers. Not politically correct, I know but in G-d's country we violate G-ds rules at our own peril.
Please tell me exactly where it says in the Torah that women are forbidden to be soldiers! You *might* think that Army service can be considered not "modest", but again, as I commented earlier, there are lots of ways EVERYONE can do Army setvice without being a combat soldier. It is entirely possible to work in an office only with other women, for example. Another is community service . I would think that shoving responsibility for the very existance of Israel onto only one sector of the population- non-observant men- absolutely violates "G-d's rules".
אנחנו ערבים זה לזה , no?
From what I understand according to Halacha a woman may not place herself under someone else's jurisdiction (other than that of her father and after marriage her husband) which is by definition the personal status of a soldier. Weapons are also considered male "garments"
From what I know of Halacha, the jurisdiction you refer to is connected to her age vs a vs marriage and property rights. Haradi women today work in all sorts of fields and many of them have supervisors; so much for your jurusdiction argument. As for weapons, not all soldiers carry weapons!
Sorry - I do not think that Israel today can afford to throw the job of defending itself on one sector of the population. I think it's WRONG. I am really trying to explain this calmly, but frankly it makes my blood boil when on the one hand religious Jews claim total exemption from service and on the other those who do serve get more and more days of service. It's so unfair, and it sparks HATE between Jews, which also undermines our existence.
As a woman who served in her other country's military before making aliyah, I'd appreciate it if you stop speaking for the rest of us. Many of us are happy to volunteer, proud to serve, and brave enough to do a good job of it, too.
As for sexual harassment in the military, sexual harassment is everywhere people can get away with it, and it's not always men harassing women, but sometimes vice versa, too. It is a totally separate issue to be properly addressed.
What more has to happen for you to be alive in your body!? This is disgusting take me off you list.
Certainly the capacity to leave is in your own hands.