The American Jewish community is an outlier in terms of its low observance and generally secular values. The British Jewish community is ~25% Orthodox. That share rises to almost half of all young children.
Besides, I think the Haredi sects in Brooklyn will continue without much of a problem. Overtime, they will bleed converts to more secular streams like happened in previous centuries.
What you're describing isn't an "end to the people" so much as an end to a hyper-secular subgroup whose sole religion seem to be Zionism. The Bret Stephens types.
P.S. it would be interesting to know what the Mizrahi Jewish population in Israel thinks. Not only do they support the government in much greater numbers than the Ashkenazim, many of them are quite rooted now. The last major wave came well over half a century ago.
Moreover, their family history before the creation of Israel isn't in the West, which is an additional barrier. I suspect the appetite for emigration among them is significantly lower, even if these reforms were to pass eventually.
Sorry, Mr. Gordis, but it seems that many members of your "Orthodox Egalitarian" congregation (filled with all those oh-so-cultured and educated professionals you admire so much)are no less arrogant than the rest of the part of the country with leftist inclinations, who have decided for the majority of us (yes, the majority, who voted in the present government, and the 58% of the Jewish population who voted for said government-and I mention that statistic since we are patronized by people who claim they want an Israel Jewish and democratic, but themselves intolerant of much of anything that smacks of Judaism). The "illiberal democracy" you so decry has been with us for a long time, exacerbated in the extreme by the exercise of unwarranted and unlimited power of the judicial and legal elite, a power not even seen in the USA, where (for just one example) supreme court justices are nominated and chosen by representatives of the people, and not by the judges themselves or some self-important lawyers from a national legal fraternity!) My pride in Israel (and I am here 42 years) is not diminished by a government I did not vote for, or even abysmal and insane utterances of various politicians (of whatever stripe). I am also not overly impressed with those who think that because of their position and their place, that dragging Israel through the mud, and even endangering it, is "fine and dandy"! As is said, arrogance knows no bounds. This is what we have here in Israel, not a "war of brothers" or "divisiveness" (which always was and always will be with us), but a group of people who just cannot fathom having the country's institutions representing all its citizens, and whose screams of "de-mo-cra-tia" ring hollow and self-serving!
As I watch now the actions of the "Day of Paralysis" that has been forced on the Israeli public, and those who scream and yell for democracy showing us by their actions that they have no intentions of ever accepting the democratic will of the electorate if it is not to their liking, it ought to be quite clear to you, Mr. Gordis, that the actual intent of all these protests and anarchy(apparently blocking highways is an expression of the kind of "democracy" these people believe in) is not really against "judicial reform", but, in actuality regime overthrow (הפיכת משטר), insofar as putting an end to the Netanyahu government. This ought to have been clear even as the protesters descended upon Sarah Netanyahu at her hairdresser's salon, or even as former prime ministers and even the Mayor of Tel Aviv call for civil insurrection (with little if any criticism from the communications media), along with the usual cast of pilots, army officers, and high tech elites, who all think they are better than the rest of us. As navy veterans at their protest at Ashdod port chant, "We will paralyze the country until Bibi surrenders", and others ready themselves to run off to Bnei Brak( to show those Haredim what democracy is?), it is then the height of chutzpah to insist that this is all evidence of a "divided nation" (קרע בעם). And, as usual, all this intimidation will end up influencing the elected government to forsake the will of its voters (nothing new here!) I also do not believe you evidenced any "nuance", when, in your recent discussion with Mr. Persico, you contended that "criminals, fascists, and thugs" (you emphasized the plural here) are part of the present government . This also, to me, implies that those who voted for this government are not much better. And even though your writing is intended for a left-liberal American Jewish community, this was a highly inflammatory statement!
When Donald Trump was elected, the leftist world was aghast. Paul Krugman swore the US economy would collapse. People marched in D.C. wearing hats supposedly resembling female genitals. Leftists swore we'd have WWIII. Instead what followed as an unprecedented period of financial success for minorities & women, reduced prison sentences for non-violent offenders, calm at the US/Mex border, a great trade deal benefitting Americans & Mexicans (Canada did meh), no wars, a short peace with North Korea and the Abraham Accords. For anyone wanting to bring up Covid, DJT had 40,000 ventilators made in a matter of months and more people died under from Covid under Biden. I'm not saying DJT didn't do stupid things, but clearly the country was in much better shape than the current admin. Somehow our armed forces were able to serve without calling for boycotts during presidencies of quite varied political views.
In leftist San Francisco, they've legalized street walking & open-air drug markets. In NYC the govt tacitly supports open-air fentanyl use. Leftist public school "teachers" take kids to drag shows, place age-inappropriate sexualized books in school libraries and give teenage girls breast binders (yes, this did happen).
The point is...this idea that it's SO horrible where I am and SO much better elsewhere...perhaps we can take a little chill pill and just see how this plays out? Nobody in Hollywood ever left. I think we're over-reacting just a smidge, eh? :) Most of the US & Israel are normies, nobody wants radical change, and if it occurs, the pendulum swings back, even in Saudi Arabia & Afghanistan.
Better under Trump?? Really?? All the antisemites and racists that crawled out from under their rocks? Supreme Ct justices who lied during their confirmation hearings? An all out war on reproductive rights (not just abortion, contraception too -- I'm not exaggerating; this is my field). Already there are hospitals closing Ob. departments because the atmosphere is so hostile to the professionals to care for women.
The anti-Semites are abound, both on the left and right (especially Europe!), and if you look at most of the attacks on Jews in the US, an overwhelming majority are by American Blacks, not by straw-chewing Jethro from Alabama. Racist whites are almost entirely in the sticks, far from Crown Heights.
Who lied at their hearing? Brett Kavanaugh had a personal calendar going back to the 1980's and that psychotic woman's story was trashed by the investigator. Amy Coney Barrett would wipe the floor with you in a Constitutional law debate, and at least they weren't selected because of their race like Ketanji Jackson. Also, this happened under Biden. :)
All the supreme court did on their latest abortion case was rule that it was up to the states, not the federal govt (esp the court itself), to make abortion law. This is emblazoned in the constitution...any topic not explicitly mentioned in the constitution is subject to state, not federal, law. All this supreme court did was go back to that standard. This is no different than state gun, tax or traffic laws.
By and large, and not surprisingly, you failed to address the successes under DJT regarding tax reform, prison reform, border security & the Abraham accords. I'm pro-choice, but if losing access to abortion by state law means we're freer from federal encumbrances, I'm on-board. Unfortunately, many people, including some substack authors, can't see past their own virtue signaling. Here's where I get banned for disagreeing, but I can't say I'm surprised given the Left's fascist approach to free-speech (i.e. only their speech is allowed). Cest la vie.
At least one of the recently appointed justices, when asked about Roe v. Wade, said that it was 'established law.' The clear implication was that Roe v. Wade was the law of the land, etched in stone, so to speak. Then these same justices voted to overturn it. As a result, women will die, just at they did before Roe v. Wade.
Under the constitution, the US Supreme court was never supposed to have the powers it's assumed, including judicial review. At best they were to rule Guilty/Not-guilty, instead they've assumed this power to strike down laws they, an unelected, life-time serving body, don't feel align with the constitution. This is tragic and should have never happened, and unfortunately, just like the Israeli Supreme court, has only gone in the wrong direction...specifically the Supreme court able to make law. This is the antithesis of Article 1 of the US Constitution that states the power of the people shall lie in the Congress. All this SCOTUS did was go back to that standard, allowing legislatures, not courts, to make law, as it should be. Legislatures are constantly up for re-election, allowing the populous elect who they feel represents their needs at the current time. As the needs and electorate change, so does the legislature...much better than a monarchy, or a court of 9 that makes law for 325,000,000.
Personally I think states banning abortion is stupid. I think it's terrible for women and the child, but this is how their legislatures have voted. Perhaps if things don't go well, the constituency will change their minds but abortion is, and always has been, a state issue, not federal.
The same Bible that prophesized the return to Zion and the ingathering of the exiles promised that the Jewish People would be eternal. Daniel, your shul was full of observant Jews praying, but where is God in your picture? Do you really think that God can't deliver us from the present catastrophe? Yes, we have to do our hishtadlus (reasonable effort), but the Jewish People's survival has always been a miracle of God. The false gods of politics and the economy are failing us, as they always have. It's time to turn to the One real God.
I am an true and ardent Zionist and cannot bear to even think of the demise of the State of Israel - but the heart and soul and reason for the past and future survival of the Jewish people is Torah, not Land.
As someone who worked as a professional in the American Jewish community for almost 50 years, I would suggest a somewhat more nuanced nightmare. The Jewish People, including American Jewry, would survive the unthinkable demise of Israel, but it will be a throwback to Jewish life before the Enlightenment and Emancipation. There will be communities of Ultra Orthodox and Hasidic Jews. They will live their Jewish traditional lives, mostly isolated from the general population, and become the Jewish Amish, self contained and self perpetuating. Likewise there will be pockets of former Israelis who will cling to one another like members of a tribe. They will do their best to perpetuate their love of the Israel that was and hope that the memory of the State of Israel will be enough for their children and grandchildren to embrace and retain their identity as Israelis and Jews. However, intermarriage rates suggest that in time that identity will be deluded. There will also be pockets of Modern Orthodox Jews who will hold onto their Judaism but sadly for the majority of Jews the realities of intermarriage, assimilation, antisemitism and the lure to blend in, absent the anchor of Israel, will lose their Jewish identity.
Jews as people and a religion will become a footnote of history ("yes, my ancestors were of Jewish origin"). We will no longer have a vehicle to help shape our destiny and be an actor on the stage of history.
We all need to hope and pray that the immortal words of POGO do not come to fruition. "We have met the enemy and they are us."
In the next election even if it is 2027 the politics will swing back to the Sanity Side .
This current legalised corruption will cause a counter reaction to the Center and Left .
The Secular-Traditional Center Left to Center Right Israelis have 80 representatives out of 120 and the Netanyahu phenomena of brilliance with arrogance but self interest will slowly fade .
Do you really think young people are going to jump ship because of Israeli government corruption and injustice? I think it is more likely they will head to a country where they can afford to buy a house and not force their children to move every two years. It is not 1948 -- there is no reason to be living in post WWII austerity conditions. Why the government lets the banks strangle housing development here is a mystery to me. Having to put down $100,000 to buy an apartment the size of my basement in the U.S. is appalling. As for Jewish life outside Israel, in case you haven't noticed, the Haredi community is growing and flourishing as quickly as the assimilated Jews are vanishing. And most of the Haredim don't recognize Israel anyway, so it doesn't matter if the state is here or not. Judaism will go on -- just not the way your cousin prefers it.
The American Jewish community is an outlier in terms of its low observance and generally secular values. The British Jewish community is ~25% Orthodox. That share rises to almost half of all young children.
Besides, I think the Haredi sects in Brooklyn will continue without much of a problem. Overtime, they will bleed converts to more secular streams like happened in previous centuries.
What you're describing isn't an "end to the people" so much as an end to a hyper-secular subgroup whose sole religion seem to be Zionism. The Bret Stephens types.
P.S. it would be interesting to know what the Mizrahi Jewish population in Israel thinks. Not only do they support the government in much greater numbers than the Ashkenazim, many of them are quite rooted now. The last major wave came well over half a century ago.
Moreover, their family history before the creation of Israel isn't in the West, which is an additional barrier. I suspect the appetite for emigration among them is significantly lower, even if these reforms were to pass eventually.
Sorry, Mr. Gordis, but it seems that many members of your "Orthodox Egalitarian" congregation (filled with all those oh-so-cultured and educated professionals you admire so much)are no less arrogant than the rest of the part of the country with leftist inclinations, who have decided for the majority of us (yes, the majority, who voted in the present government, and the 58% of the Jewish population who voted for said government-and I mention that statistic since we are patronized by people who claim they want an Israel Jewish and democratic, but themselves intolerant of much of anything that smacks of Judaism). The "illiberal democracy" you so decry has been with us for a long time, exacerbated in the extreme by the exercise of unwarranted and unlimited power of the judicial and legal elite, a power not even seen in the USA, where (for just one example) supreme court justices are nominated and chosen by representatives of the people, and not by the judges themselves or some self-important lawyers from a national legal fraternity!) My pride in Israel (and I am here 42 years) is not diminished by a government I did not vote for, or even abysmal and insane utterances of various politicians (of whatever stripe). I am also not overly impressed with those who think that because of their position and their place, that dragging Israel through the mud, and even endangering it, is "fine and dandy"! As is said, arrogance knows no bounds. This is what we have here in Israel, not a "war of brothers" or "divisiveness" (which always was and always will be with us), but a group of people who just cannot fathom having the country's institutions representing all its citizens, and whose screams of "de-mo-cra-tia" ring hollow and self-serving!
Like arrogance, delirium knows no bounds. Our ships will go down together.
As I watch now the actions of the "Day of Paralysis" that has been forced on the Israeli public, and those who scream and yell for democracy showing us by their actions that they have no intentions of ever accepting the democratic will of the electorate if it is not to their liking, it ought to be quite clear to you, Mr. Gordis, that the actual intent of all these protests and anarchy(apparently blocking highways is an expression of the kind of "democracy" these people believe in) is not really against "judicial reform", but, in actuality regime overthrow (הפיכת משטר), insofar as putting an end to the Netanyahu government. This ought to have been clear even as the protesters descended upon Sarah Netanyahu at her hairdresser's salon, or even as former prime ministers and even the Mayor of Tel Aviv call for civil insurrection (with little if any criticism from the communications media), along with the usual cast of pilots, army officers, and high tech elites, who all think they are better than the rest of us. As navy veterans at their protest at Ashdod port chant, "We will paralyze the country until Bibi surrenders", and others ready themselves to run off to Bnei Brak( to show those Haredim what democracy is?), it is then the height of chutzpah to insist that this is all evidence of a "divided nation" (קרע בעם). And, as usual, all this intimidation will end up influencing the elected government to forsake the will of its voters (nothing new here!) I also do not believe you evidenced any "nuance", when, in your recent discussion with Mr. Persico, you contended that "criminals, fascists, and thugs" (you emphasized the plural here) are part of the present government . This also, to me, implies that those who voted for this government are not much better. And even though your writing is intended for a left-liberal American Jewish community, this was a highly inflammatory statement!
When Donald Trump was elected, the leftist world was aghast. Paul Krugman swore the US economy would collapse. People marched in D.C. wearing hats supposedly resembling female genitals. Leftists swore we'd have WWIII. Instead what followed as an unprecedented period of financial success for minorities & women, reduced prison sentences for non-violent offenders, calm at the US/Mex border, a great trade deal benefitting Americans & Mexicans (Canada did meh), no wars, a short peace with North Korea and the Abraham Accords. For anyone wanting to bring up Covid, DJT had 40,000 ventilators made in a matter of months and more people died under from Covid under Biden. I'm not saying DJT didn't do stupid things, but clearly the country was in much better shape than the current admin. Somehow our armed forces were able to serve without calling for boycotts during presidencies of quite varied political views.
In leftist San Francisco, they've legalized street walking & open-air drug markets. In NYC the govt tacitly supports open-air fentanyl use. Leftist public school "teachers" take kids to drag shows, place age-inappropriate sexualized books in school libraries and give teenage girls breast binders (yes, this did happen).
The point is...this idea that it's SO horrible where I am and SO much better elsewhere...perhaps we can take a little chill pill and just see how this plays out? Nobody in Hollywood ever left. I think we're over-reacting just a smidge, eh? :) Most of the US & Israel are normies, nobody wants radical change, and if it occurs, the pendulum swings back, even in Saudi Arabia & Afghanistan.
Better under Trump?? Really?? All the antisemites and racists that crawled out from under their rocks? Supreme Ct justices who lied during their confirmation hearings? An all out war on reproductive rights (not just abortion, contraception too -- I'm not exaggerating; this is my field). Already there are hospitals closing Ob. departments because the atmosphere is so hostile to the professionals to care for women.
Better with Trump; yeah, sure...
Really.
The anti-Semites are abound, both on the left and right (especially Europe!), and if you look at most of the attacks on Jews in the US, an overwhelming majority are by American Blacks, not by straw-chewing Jethro from Alabama. Racist whites are almost entirely in the sticks, far from Crown Heights.
Who lied at their hearing? Brett Kavanaugh had a personal calendar going back to the 1980's and that psychotic woman's story was trashed by the investigator. Amy Coney Barrett would wipe the floor with you in a Constitutional law debate, and at least they weren't selected because of their race like Ketanji Jackson. Also, this happened under Biden. :)
All the supreme court did on their latest abortion case was rule that it was up to the states, not the federal govt (esp the court itself), to make abortion law. This is emblazoned in the constitution...any topic not explicitly mentioned in the constitution is subject to state, not federal, law. All this supreme court did was go back to that standard. This is no different than state gun, tax or traffic laws.
By and large, and not surprisingly, you failed to address the successes under DJT regarding tax reform, prison reform, border security & the Abraham accords. I'm pro-choice, but if losing access to abortion by state law means we're freer from federal encumbrances, I'm on-board. Unfortunately, many people, including some substack authors, can't see past their own virtue signaling. Here's where I get banned for disagreeing, but I can't say I'm surprised given the Left's fascist approach to free-speech (i.e. only their speech is allowed). Cest la vie.
At least one of the recently appointed justices, when asked about Roe v. Wade, said that it was 'established law.' The clear implication was that Roe v. Wade was the law of the land, etched in stone, so to speak. Then these same justices voted to overturn it. As a result, women will die, just at they did before Roe v. Wade.
Under the constitution, the US Supreme court was never supposed to have the powers it's assumed, including judicial review. At best they were to rule Guilty/Not-guilty, instead they've assumed this power to strike down laws they, an unelected, life-time serving body, don't feel align with the constitution. This is tragic and should have never happened, and unfortunately, just like the Israeli Supreme court, has only gone in the wrong direction...specifically the Supreme court able to make law. This is the antithesis of Article 1 of the US Constitution that states the power of the people shall lie in the Congress. All this SCOTUS did was go back to that standard, allowing legislatures, not courts, to make law, as it should be. Legislatures are constantly up for re-election, allowing the populous elect who they feel represents their needs at the current time. As the needs and electorate change, so does the legislature...much better than a monarchy, or a court of 9 that makes law for 325,000,000.
Personally I think states banning abortion is stupid. I think it's terrible for women and the child, but this is how their legislatures have voted. Perhaps if things don't go well, the constituency will change their minds but abortion is, and always has been, a state issue, not federal.
The same Bible that prophesized the return to Zion and the ingathering of the exiles promised that the Jewish People would be eternal. Daniel, your shul was full of observant Jews praying, but where is God in your picture? Do you really think that God can't deliver us from the present catastrophe? Yes, we have to do our hishtadlus (reasonable effort), but the Jewish People's survival has always been a miracle of God. The false gods of politics and the economy are failing us, as they always have. It's time to turn to the One real God.
I am an true and ardent Zionist and cannot bear to even think of the demise of the State of Israel - but the heart and soul and reason for the past and future survival of the Jewish people is Torah, not Land.
As someone who worked as a professional in the American Jewish community for almost 50 years, I would suggest a somewhat more nuanced nightmare. The Jewish People, including American Jewry, would survive the unthinkable demise of Israel, but it will be a throwback to Jewish life before the Enlightenment and Emancipation. There will be communities of Ultra Orthodox and Hasidic Jews. They will live their Jewish traditional lives, mostly isolated from the general population, and become the Jewish Amish, self contained and self perpetuating. Likewise there will be pockets of former Israelis who will cling to one another like members of a tribe. They will do their best to perpetuate their love of the Israel that was and hope that the memory of the State of Israel will be enough for their children and grandchildren to embrace and retain their identity as Israelis and Jews. However, intermarriage rates suggest that in time that identity will be deluded. There will also be pockets of Modern Orthodox Jews who will hold onto their Judaism but sadly for the majority of Jews the realities of intermarriage, assimilation, antisemitism and the lure to blend in, absent the anchor of Israel, will lose their Jewish identity.
Jews as people and a religion will become a footnote of history ("yes, my ancestors were of Jewish origin"). We will no longer have a vehicle to help shape our destiny and be an actor on the stage of history.
We all need to hope and pray that the immortal words of POGO do not come to fruition. "We have met the enemy and they are us."
I think you meant 'diluted,' not 'deluded.'
Correct.
In the next election even if it is 2027 the politics will swing back to the Sanity Side .
This current legalised corruption will cause a counter reaction to the Center and Left .
The Secular-Traditional Center Left to Center Right Israelis have 80 representatives out of 120 and the Netanyahu phenomena of brilliance with arrogance but self interest will slowly fade .
Do you really think young people are going to jump ship because of Israeli government corruption and injustice? I think it is more likely they will head to a country where they can afford to buy a house and not force their children to move every two years. It is not 1948 -- there is no reason to be living in post WWII austerity conditions. Why the government lets the banks strangle housing development here is a mystery to me. Having to put down $100,000 to buy an apartment the size of my basement in the U.S. is appalling. As for Jewish life outside Israel, in case you haven't noticed, the Haredi community is growing and flourishing as quickly as the assimilated Jews are vanishing. And most of the Haredim don't recognize Israel anyway, so it doesn't matter if the state is here or not. Judaism will go on -- just not the way your cousin prefers it.